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Margaret Mills's avatar

Well said, Kathryn. I began publishing (in small, low-paying venues) over 50 years ago, and the economic success of artists has long been a topic of discussion in my family. Being authentic in writing while still making a living has been a struggle all these fifty years. Although the writing world has changed, that remains constant.

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Kathryn Vercillo's avatar

That's a good point. I don't want to err on romanticizing what "it used to be" when it's certainly always been hard to make a living as a writer/artist/creative - especially for women and anyone from a historically marginalized community.

I'm still working to pull out all of the different threads of what I want to articulate here, but one is that so much of our current Western world has been built on the labor of writers (all that "content") which in my experience has been paid less and less each year. When I started, it felt like I could do a variety of writing, some of which I might not love but that was steady work, and it gave me enough of an income to support the development of other writing for smaller niche publications, and that no longer feels true. Does that make sense?

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Margaret Mills's avatar

Yes, that absolutely makes sense. The topic has a lot of facets to it. It feels like places to publish your work are more accessible, but the pay is lower. In the early days, I wrote for magazines to support the writing of a long-term book. Much later, in desperate straits, I wrote for a content mill. It makes you like a hamster on a wheel. The trap was the easy access and guaranteed pay. No long waits, no queries rejected - just write all the time and get paid weekly - but each article got a fraction of what a regular magazine article would have brought. There have been so many changes in publishing/writing it isn't easy to tease out all the thoughts, as you said. Thanks for giving me something to chew on!

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Kathryn Vercillo's avatar

Yes, all of that is true for me too. I've basically never made any money off of the books that I've written (if you consider marketing costs and hourly investment of my time) but they're the most fulfilling. I've been relieved to have the consistent paycheck of content mills ... and also it drained my soul and eventually made it impossible to write creatively at the same time. It's tricky.

Some things are so much better now. I am not quite old enough to have been typing out copies of manuscripts on a typewriter but I do remember mailing submissions with an SASE and waiting forever for responses that were often rejections. There's a lot more access now and I do love that I can publish anything I want whenever I want online if it feels urgent to just get the words out there. But also ...

Lots to keep considering and would love to continue this conversation.

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Margaret Mills's avatar

LOL. I AM old enough to have used a typewriter (electric, fortunately). What magic when word processors came out. Much has changed, for better and for worse.

This past year I lost my oldest son to cancer which has led to much reflection on his life and career. He was a graphic designer, high-tech computer and video. Very successful financially. He did manage to channel his artistic side into a well-paid career. My other four kids are also highly creative (art/writing/acting/music) but have had to get "real" jobs. My son and I had discussed the need for artists to be good businessmen, and how that really isn't possible for a lot of people. You are switching from right to left brain and some (most?) creatives just can't. I have (delusionally?) thought I was thinking in a good business-like manner, (you too, by the way) but don't have my son's results. He liked his career, but at his memorial his daughter spoke of a painting he had done that hung on their wall her whole life as being an influence on her love of art. He once told me he wondered if he should have gone to art school instead. His desire to paint was sacrificed for the high paying design of a lot of corporate web pages. What could he have done as a painter?

I don't like a lot about the current writing world - not just the pay dropping, but the quality seems to be deteriorating. Some publications uphold their standards but a lot of content is pretty bad. I probably sound like an old curmudgeon but it is a challenging world. Not sure what the answers might be. To succeed it seems like we need to have some writing ability, but also be gifted at business and marketing - and be able to "catch the next wave" as the field changes. A lot of us (me) really just want a room of our own, an old typewriter, a cat. and a cup of tea.

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Kathryn Vercillo's avatar

Aw, I'm just slightly younger and I have fond memories of using our electric typewriter to type out some of my earliest stories :)

Sending so much softness around losing your son. What a hard thing <3 <3 And thank you for sharing about him. I love when people are able to find a way to bring creativity into their higher-paying work but it does mean a choice between types of creativity and types of careers etc.

I think I was happy to initially do some of those content-writing jobs when I was young because it felt like that - like I could make steady money learning about and writing about a whole variety of things. In the beginning of my career, blogs were getting big, but it was before everyone needed to use keywords and specific formats and dumbed down writing to please Google, so even though I was writing for businesses and not necessarily for topics I chose, it still had a lot of creative element to it. Over time, that has changed so much.

I would love that cup of tea.

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Margaret Mills's avatar

Thanks for the softness :-) Yeah, rough year.

I enjoyed the content writing too, actually. I liked the structure with enough variety and challenge to keep it interesting, and of course, the instant gratification of quick payments. I've loved writing. A lot of good moments, but, yeah, not much income. And now we have AI. Brave new world. I guess I'm waiting to see if something more positive shakes out of the chaos. And I wonder how to make new publishing models work better to get better pay for writers. I had some episodic stories on Vella for a while. (Amazon recently shut it all down) I could see a couple of problems: one is I didn't write in the best-paying genres for that venue. And their business model didn't work well, especially for readers. Could it be tweaked? What a lot to think about.

I haven't given up hope - but I admit I might be slightly delusional. :-)

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Pamela Leavey's avatar

As I read this I thought about my ongoing saga of losing my housing at 68 years old, having worked in arts fields, mostly self-employed throughout my life. With a late in fife M.A. and health issues, no savings, no retirement funds but S.S. under 1K a month, I have one choice for housing - HUD senior housing. It's not ideal. I will have no space for my writing and photography desk. Thank you Kathryn for voicing the struggles of writers writing on a content platform.

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Kathryn Vercillo's avatar

I want what I write to resonate and I also really wish this one didn't resonate so much with so many people. My heart hurts reading this because I really love what you create and share and it deserves a big place in this world. Thank you for connecting here.

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Pamela Leavey's avatar

Kathryn, I think a lot of us here spend a lot of time on our work and yes, it is work. When we struggle to do the work because we can’t make ends meet, it’s hard to justify at time. You give voice to what some feel here and never really say. Much love and respect my friend!

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Kaitlin Senter's avatar

And leaves me asking, what can I do? We may not be able to do enough to change it in this lifetime but maybe the next. Where do we start?? (I'm not expecting you to know, I am just pondering)

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Kathryn Vercillo's avatar

I am pondering this, too. No answers, many questions, and an eagerness to be part of some kind of shift.

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Keva Epale's avatar

What a powerful piece and a call to reason for all of us—creatives and beyond. You said it right: love is not enough, yet it is the fuel that keeps us alive. The system isn't built to support the arts as essential or masterful paths—it fails to elevate and secure them. The same imbalance applies to creative professions, while fields like business, tech, and politics are given a kind of armor, both philosophical and financial, that allows them to dominate—even though it's the arts that help them shine in the spotlight.

It’s ironic how our craft is losing its aura for commodity, even though so many of us have believed deeply in our gifts and talents. The market keeps screaming that belief isn't enough.

I hope a better system prevails—one where creatives have more influence and economic power to define both our worth and the true Value of Art. In the end, many are called, but few are chosen. I hope future generations won’t lose their soul by diluting themselves for lack of options, unable to fully own their craft. Politicians and philanthropists can help with legislation and funding, but we still have to reassess what is Value.

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LaMonica Curator's avatar

It makes me wonder what building blocks we would use if we had a chance to design it from the bottom upward all over again. How would it could we make it better? To not turn out here?

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Kathryn Vercillo's avatar

That is an excellent question. One I have no answer for but am eager to continue mulling over.

I have been asking myself recently if I would do anything differently in the development of my career and the choices I made over the last decades. It's a thought experiment, I suppose, because in reality I did exactly what felt right at the time, so I wouldn't have chosen differently. And I've had amazing experiences with creativity and connection along the way.

But I do think that a lot of choices that I made to make money with my words are ones I would choose differently if the system itself had been different.

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LaMonica Curator's avatar

I am convinced we take the roads leading to something, not nothing, and it is more about asking the right questions when we get to the next juncture. As in, right now this has us allllll asking a lot of questions, but are they the right ones? Your article completely begins the next question cycle, the track we need to be on.

The combination of each of our paths in our own journeys makes us uniquely adaptable and applicable to a certain task or situation which lies ahead. This I believe. We often cannot see it. This we know. It happens every time. So why do we get so frustrated?

At the most confusing times in my life I try reverse engineering to the right question. It’s a kind of white board process: I list all the disparate things I am able to do, no matter how unrelated they seem. Including things like can garden vegetables, make pizza dough, change oil on a car, back up hard drives, sew my own clothes…. Just whatever! But be sure you can see them ALL at the same time.

Two things happen: First, you really appreciate yourself more! The uniqueness of your life experience plus acquired knowledge is like no other. Second, you put into the Universe ‘see me! I am here!’ In a way you would not have before.

NOW you ask the question(s) AGAIN. This time, it is with a wholeness unlike the other times. At the same time, you are also seeing what your unique combination of qualifications might apply to through correlation to current needs in community, culture, social structure… even as related to institutional needs. It matters not where or what scale. Do not be intimidated by size of the potential receptor of your great gifts. You could end up being a mediator or facilitator for some Fortune 500 or your neighborhood dog park needing better poo pick up. Who knows? But the point is, this becomes a blue sky list of where your puzzle piece might fit.

Even if it makes no sense yet, watch. It works. Something will come up. The next time you go to bed at night, all you’ll have to ask is: What am I supposed to be doing NOW?

This time? It will be the (informed) right question. As I see it, the Universe can only give back equal to what you give it. So put yourself 💯on its table.

(And if you use this in your next book or course—credit me! Then run with it!) (oh, and invite me) (👉🏻you know this all comes from the principles of “A Course In Miracles” right? Just adapted, my version.)

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Kathryn Vercillo's avatar

An inspiring approach. <3

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Kathryn Vercillo's avatar

It's been a really really long time since I looked at A Course in Miracles. Thanks for the reminder.

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Kathryn Vercillo's avatar

So well said. Really appreciate that you've added your voice here. <3 <3

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Kathlyn's avatar

I’m not (and never have been) a writer, and I still felt this call deep in my soul. Our whole public education system in my country survives on the goodwill and hardwork (overwork) of those in it - and it’s broken me, twice. Yet, those who do the most get paid (and valued) the least, as always. It seems to be a fault in Capitalism that it takes advantage of those who care about their work, whatever field they are in, and only rewards the heartless, the lucky, and the ruthless few.

I only wish I knew the answer.

(I also wish I had enough money to support you and all the other writers I love on here. Thank you for expanding my understanding, and I hope to invest in more of your writing when I am able.)

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Kathryn Vercillo's avatar

Big hugs. I am glad this resonates and also wish it didn't resonate for anyone! I began my career in education, quickly switched to social work, and soon burned out and moved into writing full time before my twenties were over. I don't know the answer either, but I'm glad to be in conversation about it. And grateful for all all of you/us who have put the work into these various fields even though it shouldn't have drained us to do so.

I am so grateful for any support that people are able to offer here. And also I've been really realizing in the last few months that I don't want the other people who are in the same position as me to be the ones who have to figure out a way to support the work. There must be a better way.

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Priscilla Harvey's avatar

Kathryn, this piece has given me so much to think about. I am left wondering how we can create something different, better, and more supportive for creatives. Thank you!

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Kathryn Vercillo's avatar

Thank you for connecting.

I had hoped that Substack was an alternative that would work for me and for various reasons have found that it's not "the answer" but what has happened is that I've connected with inspiring people willing to have these conversations and for that I'm super grateful.

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Priscilla Harvey's avatar

I haven’t been able to support myself from my writing, but I’ve connected to people like you on this platform and am so grateful for that! I’m amazed at how many beautiful writers I’ve discovered on here with such so few subscribers. I’m thinking about and exploring ways to get more of lesser known writers compensated and seen. And this article was thought provoking and illuminating.

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Kathryn Vercillo's avatar

Would love to continue discussing <3

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Priscilla Harvey's avatar

Kathryn, I have some ideas brewing. I would love to discuss with you snd explore. Maybe this coming week we could we up a call?

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Kathryn Vercillo's avatar

I'd love to set up a call and chat.

I find out tomorrow if I have a new client that I hope will keep my busy all week with getting started there. Cross your fingers that's a yes, in which case I can't do a call til the following week. I can keep you posted.

Generally, though, when is good for you? I'm on California time zone and am usually available mid-day with flexibility for other times - and usually not on Wednesdays.

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Kathryn Vercillo's avatar

Sending a DM

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Priscilla Harvey's avatar

🤞 why don’t you direct message me when you know it and we can set it up.

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Caroline Mellor's avatar

So many salient points here. As a home educating mother and a writer, most of the work I do (and I am always working) is unpaid. At this point I don't feel that writing is a sustainable career. I share your call for a fairer future where creative and care work is fairly compensated. Right now, it is far from it.

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Kathryn Vercillo's avatar

Yes to all of that. I didn't touch much on care work mostly because I'm not currently a mother (former and perhaps future foster mother) and not currently caring for an elder (dad passed a few years ago) and I feel like there are a lot of people who are writing much more poignant stuff specific to that right now but I absolutely want to acknowledge that this is some of most common, most important unpaid labor that we also really need to find a shift for!!

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Judith Frizlen's avatar

My first writing job was in my 20's when I got hired as a receptionist at a publishing firm in NYC. When they found out I could write, I moved to the editorial department and then was offered a higher paying job at a skin care firm writing PR and Advertising copy. At the end of that decade, I became a mother, left NYC and my husband, became a teacher and continued writing on the side. Since then, I have never been self-supporting from writing in spite of publishing four books and many articles. You describe the writer's dilemma - the need to focus on visibility and metrics when what matters most to you and likely readers, is content. "Objectively, in so many ways I have succeeded. It is the system around writing as a career that has failed."

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Kathryn Vercillo's avatar

Thank you for sharing your experience. People have frequently suggested that I teach to support my writing. It's a wonderful option for a lot of people and I'm so glad that there are those who do it ... but it's not what I wanted to do and it's so strange to me that we are all expected to have other jobs that support the creative work. <3 <3

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Judith Frizlen's avatar

I did it because I had a child to support. But this whole idea that writing is not a way to make a living saddens me. But I keep trying.

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Kathryn Vercillo's avatar

There were many reasons I decided not to have children but being able to afford to support them was one.

It's sad overall how many labor jobs just don't support a sustainable way of living for a family. <3 <3

I also should add that teaching didn't feel viable to me for long because my own health made it hard to commit to a specific in-person schedule at the time when I seriously considered it. It's a more than valid choice of career for many many reasons ... and I also just wish that it was easier for creatives of all kind to make a living.

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Ashley Zuberi's avatar

I've said similar things and lamented my "career" as a yoga teacher. After having taught yoga for a decade I was being offered class rates less than when I started. It didn't make sense to me that the more experience I gained teaching, the less money I would make. It's gotten to the point where the more I pour into becoming a better teacher will never be reciprocated in pay. There is no financial incentive to become better at your job. You're expected to be better but then pay your own way despite the fact that you don't get paid to do the work! I also once wrote a long guest post (for free) about how yoga teachers in India either chose the path of asceticism and supported themselves by begging, which is certainly not accepted in our current society, or they were supported by royalty with commissions and patronage, which is an interesting though experiment for how the system could change for artists/writers/yoga teachers. Except that the patronage can't be coming from corporations!

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Kathryn Vercillo's avatar

I hadn't ever even thought about this as it relates to yoga teachers but thinking about the ones I know it absolutely makes sense. It feels like so many types of labor and service are not really sustainable these days.

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