Thanks so much, Michael. Let us know your further thoughts if you'd like, later. Much as I'd like to think myself unique, I imagine there are many of us who have similar feelings and experiences. Forums like this are great to allow us to share them.
For instance, the day, pre-therapy, when someone suggested I might suffer from this weird anxiety called Impostor Syndrome, I realised it wasn't just me... man was that a relief! :)
This is so true Neil. I had read so much about depression prior to diagnosis and yet when I received my diagnosis and spoke to people who had similar experiences I suddenly realized in a whole different way that I am not alone - or weird, or weak or lazy or any of the things ... I am actually going through this again anew in speaking to women my age and older about perimenopause.
The more we each share our stories, the more we give everyone permission to be themselves and share their stories. We are all unique and we are also all the same and those are both beautiful things. Thank you for allowing me to provide a safe for sharing some of your story.
That shared experience is crucial in acceptance and comfort, I think. I didn't talk about it other than a passing mention as it isn't relevant, however, I have a fairly severe selective eating disorder. For decades I believed it was unique to me. Why wouldn't I eat what everyone else was eating? What the hell was wrong with me?! At the end of a long story, I was found to have this selective eating disorder which I then found was very common (though in different severities.) I was in my mid-30s before I finally felt ok (rather than acute embarrassment) at dinner saying I wasn't eating (as there was nothing for me on the menu) and leaving it at that, rather than making some excuse for sitting with only a drink. Understanding that others had similar such issues, and I wasn't alone, was revelatory.
"The more we each share our stories, the more we give everyone permission to be themselves and share their stories." 100% this.
My initial temptation is to make a joke about how you would fit in nicely with 21st century Californians since every single dinner party requires making sure that there's a selection including vegan, vegetarian, gluten free, organic-only, keto-friendly etc ...
But of course eating disorders of all kinds are no joke at all and I am not making light of that. My point in mentioning the thought at all is that so many of us are much more comfortable sharing our quirks of all kinds, whether or not they rise to "disorders" or "syndromes", than we used to be. There are a lot of negative things that we could say about the Internet and social media but one of the positives has definitely been that no matter how weird or unusual you think you are, you can get on there and find your tribe of people who totally get it.
And I am glad that you have moved into a place where you are able to understand yourself in this area and be more comfortable with it. Eating/drinking is SUCH a social thing in our culture that I can imagine that was very difficult when it was so uncomfortable. <3 <3 <3
I am much more good-humoured about it these days - especially with a partner who is vegan and oddly enough now, of the two of us, tends to be the more complex when it comes to dinner :D You give me a burger and fries and I'm as happy as my dog with a new toy.
And yes, absolutely - as toxic as the internet can be, my goodness can it be a place to find others as odd or esoteric as ourselves whether in the art we enjoy or in the disorders or differences we face?
If I'm around a dinner table with nothing but a drink as others are tucking in, I'm generally fine. If, however, someone keeps pressing me... "Oh, you must have something to eat". Then my embarrassment grows exponentially. Most friends and family now know just to let me get on with it. They know I'll either have eaten earlier or have plans to eat later. It's the newbies who don't know that can be exhausting. I remember one guest at a wedding going through the entire menu trying to find me something. She meant well, but it was obnoxious and horrendous.
Still, it's much better nowadays, now that I understand it's barely notable, rather than the weirdest thing people may have experienced :)
I have a friend-couple where she is vegan and he is keto so basically if they're cooking together it's just leafy greens :)
It's intriguing to me to think about the guest at the wedding you described ... just wondering if her own anxiety (or whatever it might be) is what pushed her to do that. Us humans are all so weird. :)
Seriously, though, thanks for sharing all of this. People are really getting a lot out of reading your interview and I appreciate the continued conversation.
Those photos are so LIFE! I went several times through them, so real, so evocative and a bit fun, too. Just like life is. PS: I'm a big fan of b&w photography.
Thank you so much, Victoria... that is a lovely comment to read. In each issue of my Photos, mostly newsletter, I add 3 recent photos that I've made, so for more of the same, have a wee browse back through my back catalogue... then of course, there's my website with some of my favourite work. And it's almost ALL black and white. Thanks again for your comment! :)
One thing I realise we didn't do in the interview above is add any of my music. Which probably shows just how completely I've moved over to photography.
Funnily enough, I met my old songwriting partner, Jules, last night for a drink. We both reminisced over this song. Possibly the best thing I / we ever did. If anyone's interested in a little retro-pop...
What a tremendously open and honest account, thanks Neil. I’m sorry to hear about your struggles, but glad you’re in a better place now. My own experience with anxiety takes a slightly different form, mostly centred around irrational health worries, and while it’s certainly less pronounced than what you’ve had to endure, it bloody sucks, doesn’t it.
Thanks, Mikey. Much of this tumult I've spoken of never felt so bad at the time, it all comes into focus in retrospect, and therapy was a comically-sized ACME magnifying glass converging the sunlight into the tight beam. It is a big deal to be able to share this stuff and hope that others feeling similar might realise it doesn't need to be that way. I like to think I'm a good guy, for the most part, but man, I was such a bitter, miserable prick just under a decade ago. Irrational health worries have started to increase for me as the rest of it subsides but I choose to believe that's me just cruising far too quickly through my forties. It does bloody suck though, aye. I hope yours don't become too acute. Thanks again for reading and for writing. :)
Thanks Neil and Kathryn for this excellent and honest interview. Your openness to share your very personal experiences helps to break some of the stigma of mental health challenges for us creatives.
You had mentioned the Freudian approach that helped you see the way formative experiences shaped your present life, but I was wondering if you have done much work with Jungian techniques using creativity in a more therapeutical way?
Thank you for your comments ❤️🫡 I really appreciate them.
As my therapist was in practice as a Freudian psychotherapist, I never had the opportunity to delve deeper into Jungian psychology (though that's not to say I wouldn't / won't in the future) so I don't know enough to speak to that. I do know, though, that both have their advocates and their critics. I didn't choose one over the other. To be very honest, my initial approach was to find a highly regarded therapist in Warsaw who conducted her practice in English. To that end, my options were limited, however, I chose one of some repute who I was lucky enough could take me on as her patient. I will read more about the Jungian approach on your recommendation :)
I think for creative people, Jungian approaches resonate in a way that feels quite natural to things they already are doing, just adding new intention into the process.
Personally speaking, I don't have a clinical background but I have been an avid journaler for many years (dreams and daily life). From that, I've melded bits of Jungian concepts such as "Active Imagination" and dreamwork techniques into my own photography practice, as well as some different techniques that I've been refining to teach to others under the framework of Individuated Photography or "IndividUography."
Still a work in progress but even the photo prompts that I'm doing here are related to these same ideas.
I don't think I'm so far away from you, to be honest. I think, though, that I skipped the theoretical side of Jung, and dived straight from Freud through Dada to the Surrealists. A lot of that unconscious side of my creativity, I funnel down through my reading of Breton, Aragon, Soupault, and others. Maybe I need to take a step back and have a read of Jung. :)
Loving this conversation about Jungian therapy. We touched on that a bit in my education although I personally didn't delve too far into it. I also haven't explored the surrealists nearly enough and as I mentioned in an article about Kay Sage I think that's been because their connection with mental health is SO strong that I'm not even sure where to begin. Like I want to dive in and immerse myself in it but I almost have felt like I needed to gain a stronger foundation in understanding how other artists have related to mental health before getting into that space. Freud and Jung influenced their philosophy and creativity so much. People have told me that I need to check out Jung's Red Book as part of my research so that's on my radar as well.
Thanks so much, Michael. Let us know your further thoughts if you'd like, later. Much as I'd like to think myself unique, I imagine there are many of us who have similar feelings and experiences. Forums like this are great to allow us to share them.
For instance, the day, pre-therapy, when someone suggested I might suffer from this weird anxiety called Impostor Syndrome, I realised it wasn't just me... man was that a relief! :)
This is so true Neil. I had read so much about depression prior to diagnosis and yet when I received my diagnosis and spoke to people who had similar experiences I suddenly realized in a whole different way that I am not alone - or weird, or weak or lazy or any of the things ... I am actually going through this again anew in speaking to women my age and older about perimenopause.
The more we each share our stories, the more we give everyone permission to be themselves and share their stories. We are all unique and we are also all the same and those are both beautiful things. Thank you for allowing me to provide a safe for sharing some of your story.
That shared experience is crucial in acceptance and comfort, I think. I didn't talk about it other than a passing mention as it isn't relevant, however, I have a fairly severe selective eating disorder. For decades I believed it was unique to me. Why wouldn't I eat what everyone else was eating? What the hell was wrong with me?! At the end of a long story, I was found to have this selective eating disorder which I then found was very common (though in different severities.) I was in my mid-30s before I finally felt ok (rather than acute embarrassment) at dinner saying I wasn't eating (as there was nothing for me on the menu) and leaving it at that, rather than making some excuse for sitting with only a drink. Understanding that others had similar such issues, and I wasn't alone, was revelatory.
"The more we each share our stories, the more we give everyone permission to be themselves and share their stories." 100% this.
My initial temptation is to make a joke about how you would fit in nicely with 21st century Californians since every single dinner party requires making sure that there's a selection including vegan, vegetarian, gluten free, organic-only, keto-friendly etc ...
But of course eating disorders of all kinds are no joke at all and I am not making light of that. My point in mentioning the thought at all is that so many of us are much more comfortable sharing our quirks of all kinds, whether or not they rise to "disorders" or "syndromes", than we used to be. There are a lot of negative things that we could say about the Internet and social media but one of the positives has definitely been that no matter how weird or unusual you think you are, you can get on there and find your tribe of people who totally get it.
And I am glad that you have moved into a place where you are able to understand yourself in this area and be more comfortable with it. Eating/drinking is SUCH a social thing in our culture that I can imagine that was very difficult when it was so uncomfortable. <3 <3 <3
I am much more good-humoured about it these days - especially with a partner who is vegan and oddly enough now, of the two of us, tends to be the more complex when it comes to dinner :D You give me a burger and fries and I'm as happy as my dog with a new toy.
And yes, absolutely - as toxic as the internet can be, my goodness can it be a place to find others as odd or esoteric as ourselves whether in the art we enjoy or in the disorders or differences we face?
If I'm around a dinner table with nothing but a drink as others are tucking in, I'm generally fine. If, however, someone keeps pressing me... "Oh, you must have something to eat". Then my embarrassment grows exponentially. Most friends and family now know just to let me get on with it. They know I'll either have eaten earlier or have plans to eat later. It's the newbies who don't know that can be exhausting. I remember one guest at a wedding going through the entire menu trying to find me something. She meant well, but it was obnoxious and horrendous.
Still, it's much better nowadays, now that I understand it's barely notable, rather than the weirdest thing people may have experienced :)
I have a friend-couple where she is vegan and he is keto so basically if they're cooking together it's just leafy greens :)
It's intriguing to me to think about the guest at the wedding you described ... just wondering if her own anxiety (or whatever it might be) is what pushed her to do that. Us humans are all so weird. :)
Seriously, though, thanks for sharing all of this. People are really getting a lot out of reading your interview and I appreciate the continued conversation.
Thank you for sharing this interview! Really enjoyed reading your story, Neil!
Thanks Priya. I'm glad you did. It was a pleasure to think on the insightful questions asked of me.
Those photos are so LIFE! I went several times through them, so real, so evocative and a bit fun, too. Just like life is. PS: I'm a big fan of b&w photography.
Neil's photos are SO great! I extra love the one with the dog :)
Thank you so much, Victoria... that is a lovely comment to read. In each issue of my Photos, mostly newsletter, I add 3 recent photos that I've made, so for more of the same, have a wee browse back through my back catalogue... then of course, there's my website with some of my favourite work. And it's almost ALL black and white. Thanks again for your comment! :)
Evening sorted )
Hahah! Thank you! ❤️🫡
One thing I realise we didn't do in the interview above is add any of my music. Which probably shows just how completely I've moved over to photography.
Funnily enough, I met my old songwriting partner, Jules, last night for a drink. We both reminisced over this song. Possibly the best thing I / we ever did. If anyone's interested in a little retro-pop...
https://toomanyfireworks.bandcamp.com/track/without-you
Ooh I’ll take a look. Thanks for adding it.
I’m very glad and grateful that you have published this interview. It is very helpful and informative. Thank you.
Thanks so much, John. I'm glad you found it so. Cheers and all the best!
What a tremendously open and honest account, thanks Neil. I’m sorry to hear about your struggles, but glad you’re in a better place now. My own experience with anxiety takes a slightly different form, mostly centred around irrational health worries, and while it’s certainly less pronounced than what you’ve had to endure, it bloody sucks, doesn’t it.
Thanks, Mikey. Much of this tumult I've spoken of never felt so bad at the time, it all comes into focus in retrospect, and therapy was a comically-sized ACME magnifying glass converging the sunlight into the tight beam. It is a big deal to be able to share this stuff and hope that others feeling similar might realise it doesn't need to be that way. I like to think I'm a good guy, for the most part, but man, I was such a bitter, miserable prick just under a decade ago. Irrational health worries have started to increase for me as the rest of it subsides but I choose to believe that's me just cruising far too quickly through my forties. It does bloody suck though, aye. I hope yours don't become too acute. Thanks again for reading and for writing. :)
Absolutely a great interview
Thanks Neil and Kathryn for this excellent and honest interview. Your openness to share your very personal experiences helps to break some of the stigma of mental health challenges for us creatives.
You had mentioned the Freudian approach that helped you see the way formative experiences shaped your present life, but I was wondering if you have done much work with Jungian techniques using creativity in a more therapeutical way?
Thank you for your comments ❤️🫡 I really appreciate them.
As my therapist was in practice as a Freudian psychotherapist, I never had the opportunity to delve deeper into Jungian psychology (though that's not to say I wouldn't / won't in the future) so I don't know enough to speak to that. I do know, though, that both have their advocates and their critics. I didn't choose one over the other. To be very honest, my initial approach was to find a highly regarded therapist in Warsaw who conducted her practice in English. To that end, my options were limited, however, I chose one of some repute who I was lucky enough could take me on as her patient. I will read more about the Jungian approach on your recommendation :)
I think for creative people, Jungian approaches resonate in a way that feels quite natural to things they already are doing, just adding new intention into the process.
Personally speaking, I don't have a clinical background but I have been an avid journaler for many years (dreams and daily life). From that, I've melded bits of Jungian concepts such as "Active Imagination" and dreamwork techniques into my own photography practice, as well as some different techniques that I've been refining to teach to others under the framework of Individuated Photography or "IndividUography."
Still a work in progress but even the photo prompts that I'm doing here are related to these same ideas.
I don't think I'm so far away from you, to be honest. I think, though, that I skipped the theoretical side of Jung, and dived straight from Freud through Dada to the Surrealists. A lot of that unconscious side of my creativity, I funnel down through my reading of Breton, Aragon, Soupault, and others. Maybe I need to take a step back and have a read of Jung. :)
Loving this conversation about Jungian therapy. We touched on that a bit in my education although I personally didn't delve too far into it. I also haven't explored the surrealists nearly enough and as I mentioned in an article about Kay Sage I think that's been because their connection with mental health is SO strong that I'm not even sure where to begin. Like I want to dive in and immerse myself in it but I almost have felt like I needed to gain a stronger foundation in understanding how other artists have related to mental health before getting into that space. Freud and Jung influenced their philosophy and creativity so much. People have told me that I need to check out Jung's Red Book as part of my research so that's on my radar as well.